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Sundries
...a sweatshop of moxie

Thursday, February 15, 2007

Why?

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39 Comments:

  • Why what? Why not?

    By Blogger Jose Aguirre, at Thu Feb 15, 02:17:00 am GMT-5  

  • I hope it is because of this.

    Elko

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Thu Feb 15, 03:16:00 am GMT-5  

  • Why what? Why not?

    Oh, you man you!

    As if you needed a big ole 1922 to guide you to that location, anyway.

    BTW, the girl and her friends were Japanese.

    Cheers,
    Victoria

    By Blogger vbspurs, at Thu Feb 15, 03:22:00 am GMT-5  

  • I hope it is because of this.

    The Waste Land! One of my favourite poems, largely because of her.

    Curiously, Marie Larisch would be PRECISELY the kind of person who would've worn these dernier cri fashion pants.

    A completely unreliable, ditzy woman.

    Cheers,
    Victoria

    By Blogger vbspurs, at Thu Feb 15, 03:24:00 am GMT-5  

  • Alas, these Japanese girls have probably misidentified 1922 as the greatest Babe Ruth season of all time. Unless, of course, they are aware of some forms of Sabrmetric analysis which does identify 1922 as Ruth's greatest year! Which would make them remarkably sophisticated...

    Is 1922 a hip size in mm?

    By Blogger Ron, at Thu Feb 15, 06:55:00 am GMT-5  

  • Just what pedophile bait needs -- advertising.

    By Anonymous class factotum, at Thu Feb 15, 12:12:00 pm GMT-5  

  • Alas, these Japanese girls have probably misidentified 1922 as the greatest Babe Ruth season of all time.

    LOL! Yeah, it's a total hommage.

    Unless, of course, they are aware of some forms of Sabrmetric analysis which does identify 1922 as Ruth's greatest year! Which would make them remarkably sophisticated...

    Maybe I should invite them to my Yahoo MLB Plus league, with its Bill James-friendly stat categories?

    Is 1922 a hip size in mm?

    Yes! It's 72 inches!

    Wow, those pants ARE slimming.

    Cheers,
    Victoria

    By Blogger vbspurs, at Thu Feb 15, 01:10:00 pm GMT-5  

  • Just what pedophile bait needs -- advertising.

    Funny you should say that, because there were two older guys (one with a stroller! No baby though, his wife probably had him) just outside this boutique, watching them, with big grins on their faces.

    But don't worry.

    Something tells me it was the unsophisticated 'look-ma!' factor at work, of guys not in the know about the current Juicy fashion trends, and thus giggling, than any aged horniness at work. ;)

    Cheers,
    Victoria

    By Blogger vbspurs, at Thu Feb 15, 01:12:00 pm GMT-5  

  • "The Sex and the City store is across the street! That's so hawt!"

    By Blogger Renato, at Thu Feb 15, 02:24:00 pm GMT-5  

  • Is 1922 a hip size in mm?

    Yes! It's 72 inches!


    Yow! Geisha got back!

    By Blogger Ron, at Thu Feb 15, 03:16:00 pm GMT-5  

  • "The Sex and the City store is across the street! That's so hawt!"

    Heh, yeah. I'm sure Manolo Blahnik will open a shop right next door.

    Cheers,
    Victoria

    By Blogger vbspurs, at Thu Feb 15, 03:25:00 pm GMT-5  

  • Yow! Geisha got back!

    Tsk. ;)

    I checked, and my mental calcs were off by 3 inches, though.

    The thing I love about Japanese culture, which I recognise in my own, is that they are not into extremes, aesthetically.

    They are perhaps the most elegant people, naturally, on earth.

    Why they wish to parrot Western fashions, especially the French ones which are all whacked out at the moment, is beyond me.

    It's their Francophilia gone amuk.

    Cheers,
    Victoria

    By Blogger vbspurs, at Thu Feb 15, 03:27:00 pm GMT-5  

  • At least it doesn't say "Juicy".

    The thing I love about Japanese culture, which I recognise in my own, is that they are not into extremes, aesthetically.

    Yeah, it's only when they get on game shows or in the bedroom that things start to go all weird.

    By Blogger Ploorian, at Thu Feb 15, 03:31:00 pm GMT-5  

  • At least it doesn't say "Juicy".

    Like these hot pink pants did, when I took a pic of them, during Christmas, at Bloomingdale's.

    Two girls were wearing them, as I went out.


    Yeah, it's only when they get on game shows or in the bedroom that things start to go all weird.


    When the Japanese meet the modern, it's bad, bad, not good.

    And the sex stuff is beyond weird, even in anime.

    I mean, Ya-oh-i?

    Cheers,
    Victoria

    By Blogger vbspurs, at Thu Feb 15, 03:39:00 pm GMT-5  

  • Like these hot pink pants did, when I took a pic of them, during Christmas, at Bloomingdale's.

    Two girls were wearing them, as I went out.


    Ugh. But I suppose "Juicy" is better than "Slut" or "Porn Star".


    When the Japanese meet the modern, it's bad, bad, not good.

    And the sex stuff is beyond weird, even in anime.

    I mean, Ya-oh-i?


    I don't know if that weirdness is a product of modernity, but technology has certainly brought it to another level.

    By Blogger Ploorian, at Thu Feb 15, 03:51:00 pm GMT-5  

  • Ugh. But I suppose "Juicy" is better than "Slut" or "Porn Star".

    We'll just have to wait for the Pamela Lee Anderson line at Target.

    BTW, I have a thing about branding on anything on my general person. This includes tattoos (as those of you who know my recent comments on Althouse, know), piercings, and also, any clothing logo which is too outlandish.

    Having said that, I love Chanel with its hunormous CCs, and I have a LV purse.

    9 of them, actually...

    I don't know if that weirdness is a product of modernity, but technology has certainly brought it to another level.

    There's a great book about that, which explores the topic, but doesn't give any reasons as to why it could be.

    Wrong about Japan

    By Peter Carey, the author of Oscar and Lucinda.

    Basically, his teenaged son becomes infatuated with MODERN Japan (hates the old stuff), and as he sinks more and more heavily into the gaming world, and anime, his father takes him to a journey of bonding, to Japan.

    I make it sound much more lyrical than it reads, believe me.

    Basically, it's an old liberal white dude who is slightly suspicious about his son's attachment to a Japanese boy, who likes to dress up as an anime character (the so-called stylists, who are into cosplay).

    For all his political progressiveness, he displays the same narrow-minded views about a culture he doesn't know, but whom he thinks has better to offer than the materialistic, Westernised "stuff" they are obsessed with.

    But the "modern v. traditional" Japan themes explored are very interesting.

    Cheers,
    Victoria

    By Blogger vbspurs, at Thu Feb 15, 04:03:00 pm GMT-5  

  • BTW, I have a thing about branding on anything on my general person. This includes tattoos (as those of you who know my recent comments on Althouse, know), piercings, and also, any clothing logo which is too outlandish.

    I read a book a million years ago which claimed that the less writing/logos on your clothing, the higher your class.

    For all his political progressiveness, he displays the same narrow-minded views about a culture he doesn't know, but whom he thinks has better to offer than the materialistic, Westernised "stuff" they are obsessed with.

    Most Sino/Japanophiles are blinded by their own myths about the East. Their love of it is so uncritical as to be bigoted.

    By Blogger Ploorian, at Thu Feb 15, 05:19:00 pm GMT-5  

  • If I were to snap every Japanese tourist dressed in whimsical slutwear (and I mean that in the nicest possible way) walking around Santa Monica, I'd quickly wear out my camera.

    On top of that, they seem to fail to consult a weather report before heading out (maybe they mess up their celsius to fahrenheit conversions), as you'll see skimpy outfits in sub 55 degree weather, and dangerously heeled footwear in the middle of rainstorms.

    It's all so fascinating.

    (and it's not just the teen/early 20s crowd, lot's of OL in their 30s and 40s seem to enjoy showing off what they got when on vacation)

    (also, there's a selection bias on my part, naturally I'm less likely to notice those not dressed in a noticeably unique (and slutty) fashion)

    As far as weird porn in Japan, they've had tentacle rape imagery in their erotica for centuries.

    Now it just moves.

    By Blogger XWL, at Thu Feb 15, 07:35:00 pm GMT-5  

  • I'd sooner be Borat at a bris, than listen to French rock!

    There's a good discussion to be had in Japanese High Culture vs. Low Culture.

    Forgive the generalization, but I notice isolated American men of a certain age latch onto Japanese pop culture, and their female contemporaries latch onto English literary culture. Coincidence?

    By Blogger Ron, at Thu Feb 15, 08:14:00 pm GMT-5  


  • I read a book a million years ago which claimed that the less writing/logos on your clothing, the higher your class.


    Possibly.

    However, I have to tell you, due to my proximity to certain people, that I have never seen more CC-conscious people, than the Italian/Spanish/Belgian nobility.

    French and British aristocracy, not so much.

    In Britain, the mark of a working-class inner city kid (the so-called chav phenomenon), is characterised by wearing Burberry's from head-to-toe.

    (I will blog about that one day)

    In America, I don't know, but I have the sense the upper-classes like the look of a logo.

    Most Sino/Japanophiles are blinded by their own myths about the East. Their love of it is so uncritical as to be bigoted.

    Right. Ironically, it's the same attitudes that allowed Puccini's Madama Butterfly to come into being.

    Both an interest in, but a fantasisation of, "exotic" cultures.

    ("A wand'ring minstrel I...")

    Cheers,
    Victoria

    By Blogger vbspurs, at Thu Feb 15, 08:21:00 pm GMT-5  

  • If I were to snap every Japanese tourist dressed in whimsical slutwear (and I mean that in the nicest possible way) walking around Santa Monica, I'd quickly wear out my camera.

    That was the case when I snapped this photo!

    It was a drizzly, coldish day, and my mother was wearing her fur because she's a 'froideuse' -- but they were as scantily dressed as what you see.

    On top of that, they seem to fail to consult a weather report before heading out (maybe they mess up their celsius to fahrenheit conversions), as you'll see skimpy outfits in sub 55 degree weather, and dangerously heeled footwear in the middle of rainstorms.

    Heh, nice use of HTML for the conversion. Very handy! But Google Knows Everything.

    (and it's not just the teen/early 20s crowd, lot's of OL in their 30s and 40s seem to enjoy showing off what they got when on vacation)

    Oh I didn't know about the OL phenomenon, at least not by name. I know exactly to what you infer, since I taught ESL in Tokyo for my gap year.

    Here's a similar cultural phenomenon:

    If you ever catch sight of a Mexican novela on Univision/Telemundo, you'll see the phenomenon of the Latin American "gobernanta".

    This is usually a spinster, of the bun and high collar type, who is nevertheless, of middle-class origin, usually educated, who has the run of a rich person's home as a kind of housekeeper/nanny/overseer type.

    She invariably sides with the master of the household, and creates problems for its mistress.

    I'm not sure if this formulaic character was ripped off from Hitchcock's "Rebecca", or if that was the norm in upper-class households in Latin America, because of course in Europe, the running of the household in such great houses is a male, not female preserve.

    (also, there's a selection bias on my part, naturally I'm less likely to notice those not dressed in a noticeably unique (and slutty) fashion)

    Indeed. Not that you mind right? ;)

    As far as weird porn in Japan, they've had tentacle rape imagery in their erotica for centuries.

    Now it just moves.


    Wow. I didn't know about that.

    I could barely look at that picture...reminds me of, gulp, another 8-legged creature...

    Cheers,
    Victoria

    By Blogger vbspurs, at Thu Feb 15, 08:30:00 pm GMT-5  

  • I'd sooner be Borat at a bris, than listen to French rock!

    Man, I have a serious problem. I love Gainsbourg, Halliday, Mylene Farmer, Hazard, and esp. JJ Goldman...

    But then, I'm an unrepetant Francophile. I'll take even the bad.

    There's a good discussion to be had in Japanese High Culture vs. Low Culture.

    Forgive the generalization, but I notice isolated American men of a certain age latch onto Japanese pop culture, and their female contemporaries latch onto English literary culture. Coincidence?


    Hmm, interesting observation.

    So, Dr. Phil will have a manga discussion group, to counter Oprah's book club? ;)

    Cheers,
    Victoria

    By Blogger vbspurs, at Thu Feb 15, 08:34:00 pm GMT-5  

  • In America, I don't know, but I have the sense the upper-classes like the look of a logo.

    This thesis was meant for American culture. In the case of logos, if you are in a higher economic class, displaying logos is an indication that your social class is lower than your economic. So the upwardly mobile/neauvou riche think they're imitating the upper social classes because they spent $XX on that handbag, when in fact what they're doing is displaying their origins in the lower classes. Same goes for a propensity to wear purple, for some reason.

    The upper, upper classes, OTOH, tend to wear tatty hand-me-downs.

    Right. Ironically, it's the same attitudes that allowed Puccini's Madama Butterfly to come into being.

    Both an interest in, but a fantasisation of, "exotic" cultures.

    ("A wand'ring minstrel I...")


    This is really pronounced in Westerners who become East Asian studies grad students. They'll get all misty-eyed over the wonders of China and completely dismiss centuries of oppression and dirt-eating.

    Another great example is the way Western diplomats will instinctively kow-tow whenever Chinese leaders have a temper tantrum.

    By Blogger Ploorian, at Thu Feb 15, 08:58:00 pm GMT-5  

  • This thesis was meant for American culture.

    Ah, right.

    In the case of logos, if you are in a higher economic class, displaying logos is an indication that your social class is lower than your economic. So the upwardly mobile/neauvou riche think they're imitating the upper social classes because they spent $XX on that handbag, when in fact what they're doing is displaying their origins in the lower classes.

    Same goes for a propensity to wear purple, for some reason.

    A bit like this?

    The upper, upper classes, OTOH, tend to wear tatty hand-me-downs.

    Yes, it's reverse snobbism, but also the Yankee thrift ethic.

    This is really pronounced in Westerners who become East Asian studies grad students. They'll get all misty-eyed over the wonders of China and completely dismiss centuries of oppression and dirt-eating.

    Another great example is the way Western diplomats will instinctively kow-tow whenever Chinese leaders have a temper tantrum.


    This is also true of the romantic attachments many Britons have had towards the Middle East.

    Lawrence of Arabia, of course, was just one proponent of Arab nationalism, but the list of Britons is endless:

    Percy Cox
    Aubrey Herbert
    Getrude Bell

    And let's not forget Sir Mark Sykes, who actually created the Arab nationalist flags of many Levantine/Arab countries.

    Oh, the irony...

    Cheers,
    Victoria

    By Blogger vbspurs, at Thu Feb 15, 11:45:00 pm GMT-5  

  • The upper, upper classes, OTOH, tend to wear tatty hand-me-downs.

    Yes, it's reverse snobbism, but also the Yankee thrift ethic.


    Reminds me of a guy I crossed paths with in Houston Texas a couple of billion years ago. Nice guy, dirty tshirt and jeans type, longish hair, short beard, owned 22 office buildings...

    By Anonymous BrotherDarryl, at Fri Feb 16, 01:13:00 am GMT-5  

  • Reminds me of a guy I crossed paths with in Houston Texas a couple of billion years ago. Nice guy, dirty tshirt and jeans type, longish hair, short beard, owned 22 office buildings...

    As an aside, Darryl, wasn't it the case that in those days, the hippie/lefty demographic was all-powerful in Houston?

    Amongst them, there used to be a an Atheist lady, who was much known and much reviled.

    (I think I saw a reportage on her on A&E, in a "City Confidential" segment)

    I have a similar story, in that one time my parents and I were shopping at one of the grand maisons like Chanel or Courreges, along the Faubourg-St. Honoré area of Paris.

    I was about oh, 10-13, but I remember this as if it happened yesterday.

    We were just being served by the usual snooty, but exquisite creature that is a Parisian sales lady, in one of these fashion establishments, when in walks what looked for all the world, like a hobo.

    He couldn't have been more than 25-30 either.

    Ripped jeans, white mucky t-shirt, and Converse All-Stars which had seen better days. It was a wonder, thought almost every person there, that the guy didn't stink -- he looked in need of a bath, and his shoulder-length hair, a comb.

    How he got past the receptionist, I don't know, but he entered, asked a saleslady in English, for a present for his mother back home in America.

    As long as I live, I will never forget the look of disgust she gave him.

    It was as if a Tsar were looking at an amoeba.

    But she attended him, whilst my mother tried on her dress, as dad and I waited.

    I was transfixed at the sight of this young kid, and watched as he got item after item.

    How would he pay? With a charge card? He looked like he didn't have a nickle in his pocket.

    When the sales lady totaled it up, I will never forget how he reached casually into his pocket, and pulled out a wad of hundreds that would choke a horse.

    It must've been 5 inches in diametre.

    The sales lady didn't flinch. She took the notes, and sent him on his way.

    But deep inside, I know she was thinking the same thing.

    You can never go by appearances, with rich Americans. NEVER.

    Cheers,
    Victoria

    By Blogger vbspurs, at Fri Feb 16, 01:29:00 am GMT-5  

  • As an aside, Darryl, wasn't it the case that in those days, the hippie/lefty demographic was all-powerful in Houston?


    As I recall (some 26 years later) that seems somewhat accurate.


    Amongst them, there used to be a an Atheist lady, who was much known and much reviled.


    Sounds like you're referring to Madelyn Murray-O'Hair. A wingnut of the first order.

    We have our own nutjobs here, just google the "Freedom from Religion Foundation" you'll see what I mean.

    Word verification: jlzes (don't know what it is, but it sounds rich)

    By Anonymous BrotherDarryl, at Fri Feb 16, 03:22:00 am GMT-5  

  • A bit like this?

    No, it's just purple. I think it has something to do with purple being a royal color--by wearing it you are showing that you are trying to bring yourself above your class.

    Yes, it's reverse snobbism, but also the Yankee thrift ethic.

    A certain disdain for crass materialism. "Our class is so high we don't have to show it."

    Oh, the irony...

    Indeed.

    By Blogger Ploorian, at Fri Feb 16, 02:20:00 pm GMT-5  

  • A certain disdain for crass materialism. "Our class is so high we don't have to show it."

    In America it's been shown that it all really comes down to who you were before you came into the money. The rich that shopped at Wal-Mart before they became so tend to continue. They just don't worry about how to afford it anymore

    By Anonymous BrotherDarryl, at Fri Feb 16, 05:55:00 pm GMT-5  

  • Seems this discussion is headed towards a discussion of Cayce Pollard Units

    (additionally, I thought the book was pretty good)

    (and in this case, that book actually is about 9/11)

    By Blogger XWL, at Fri Feb 16, 06:25:00 pm GMT-5  

  • In America it's been shown that it all really comes down to who you were before you came into the money. The rich that shopped at Wal-Mart before they became so tend to continue. They just don't worry about how to afford it anymore

    Right. That's the difference between social and economic class--a difference which people who try to move up in social class run smack into after they've raised their economic class. "I'm rich now so I must be part of the hoi polloi." Nope.

    To enter the upper social classes you just have to be that way. You can't try to learn it through imitation or whatever your own conceptions of it might be. When you do, you end up looking foolish. Like an obviously lower class, grossly obese woman waddling through the mall wearing her purple sweat suit. The object, or for that matter attempting to imitate behavior, doesn't confer social class.

    By Blogger Ploorian, at Fri Feb 16, 07:03:00 pm GMT-5  

  • As I recall (some 26 years later) that seems somewhat accurate.

    Yeah, then the 1980s happened.

    Was there ever such a swift change in one state's politics, as Texas had in the 80s?

    I understand the phenomenon of the Dixiecrat, but still, it seems almost overnight.


    Sounds like you're referring to Madelyn Murray-O'Hair. A wingnut of the first order.


    YES! Well, moonbat. ;)

    She would be in Code Pink today, if not outright leading it.

    We have our own nutjobs here, just google the "Freedom from Religion Foundation" you'll see what I mean.

    Oh dear. I think I will, but with gloves on.

    Word verification: jlzes (don't know what it is, but it sounds rich)

    Sounds like jizz to me. :)

    Cheers,
    Victoria

    By Blogger vbspurs, at Sat Feb 17, 02:17:00 am GMT-5  

  • No, it's just purple. I think it has something to do with purple being a royal color--by wearing it you are showing that you are trying to bring yourself above your class.

    Ahhhh.

    Okay, wait, though. I fancy that this is more sociologist-centric, than real life.

    For example, I had a friend (Indian from Jamaica, not very rich at all) who just happened to have a hideous Barney car, as I called it.

    It wasn't her choice, but she got it from her dealer friend -- cheap.

    My point is, just how prevalent is the purply thing for royal connotations, rather than just whatever is at the lot, and cheaper because it's a stinky colour?

    OTOH, I am well aware and slightly nonplussed by, specifically, black Americans naming their kids Prince.

    Like Michael Jackson...

    And yes, I know there are reasons similar to the ones you noted for above.

    Jermajesty, anyone?

    Cheers,
    Victoria

    By Blogger vbspurs, at Sat Feb 17, 02:21:00 am GMT-5  

  • Thanks, XWL! It's only 5 bucks, too. ;)

    Cheers,
    Victoria

    By Blogger vbspurs, at Sat Feb 17, 02:22:00 am GMT-5  

  • The object, or for that matter attempting to imitate behavior, doesn't confer social class.

    Also, I think Americans are different from other nations, in that they just plain don't care how they look -- especially when making a "rich" or "well-heeled" statement.

    I don't know why that is, and though it was different in the 1950s, and before, it has always been the case.

    Though he did it for many reasons, let's not forget that Ben Franklin wowed the spoilt French nobility with his plain dress, and his Davy Crockett raccoon hat, which set an hilarious fashion fad as a result.

    Cheers,
    Victoria

    By Blogger vbspurs, at Sat Feb 17, 02:25:00 am GMT-5  

  • Okay, wait, though. I fancy that this is more sociologist-centric, than real life.

    It is. I don't know if I buy it entirely myself, but I think there's something there. The presumption is that people take on these social indicators unconsciously.

    It wasn't her choice, but she got it from her dealer friend -- cheap.

    My point is, just how prevalent is the purply thing for royal connotations, rather than just whatever is at the lot, and cheaper because it's a stinky colour?


    That would be a case of making a social statement with the color without realizing it.

    Unconscious memes and all of that.

    So when asking the question, "Why is purple popular in a society with Western European-based cultures?" The answer isn't that there is some inherent aesthetic quality of purple, but that it has historically been associated with royalty.

    Of course, as we get farther and farther away from the historical origin of the meme, it's present-day relevance lessens.

    By Blogger Ploorian, at Sat Feb 17, 04:26:00 pm GMT-5  

  • Also, I think Americans are different from other nations, in that they just plain don't care how they look -- especially when making a "rich" or "well-heeled" statement.

    It's the myth of the importance of egalitarianism which runs through our history. We're all supposed to be in this together so "putting on airs" doesn't go over well.

    By Blogger Ploorian, at Sat Feb 17, 04:29:00 pm GMT-5  

  • It's the myth of the importance of egalitarianism which runs through our history. We're all supposed to be in this together so "putting on airs" doesn't go over well.

    This is a complex topic, that I think would make an admirable book.

    Because what you say is true, but there are no people on earth, in my experience travelling, that judge more on looks, clothes, jewelry, than Americans do to others.

    They may look like rubbish.

    But even whilst they are wearing jeans and torn tees, they are still dismissing others if they are badly dressed too.

    This happens at every social level, I've noticed.

    But I just happen to call it the Michael Moore phenomenon.

    The kind where a book title would be called, "Big Fat Stupid White Man", and it is written precisely by a bit fat stupid white man.

    OTOH, this trait is not a bad thing, necessarily.

    It is the reason why, amongst many others to be sure, Americans chose a regal man, with elegance in spades, for their first president.

    I mean, they could well have chosen Ben Franklin with his raccoon hat, or dumpy John Adams.

    But they went with the King Substitute.

    Cheers,
    Victoria

    By Blogger vbspurs, at Sun Feb 18, 12:15:00 pm GMT-5  

  • Because what you say is true, but there are no people on earth, in my experience travelling, that judge more on looks, clothes, jewelry, than Americans do to others.

    I was reading about high-end, "super car" dealerships in the US. One dealer was pointing out that many dealers make the mistake of dismissing people who don't pull up to the dealership in an expensive car and wearing expensive clothing. A large portion of high-end car buyers are people who inhereted a lot of money, won the lottery, or are self-made millionaires.

    OTOH, this trait is not a bad thing, necessarily.

    Indeed. It's a bit hypocritical, but it serves as a check against a stringent social class system.

    But they went with the King Substitute.

    To add to the complexity, he was landed gentry with a certain disdain for the lower classes (it took him a while to stop viewing New Englanders with some contempt)--the kind of person who might be tempted to take the kingship when it was offered to him, yet he emphatically refused it.

    By Blogger Ploorian, at Sun Feb 18, 01:09:00 pm GMT-5  

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